Ukrainian drone teams demolished a brigade of US Army tanks and armored vehicles during a live war game held this year—but the US soldiers were lucky enough to get “respawn” attempts while learning from the experience.
The semiannual military exercise, called Combined Resolve, gave the US military a firsthand taste of how modern drone warfare has evolved on the battlefields of Ukraine. The Ukrainian drone operators participating in the exercise were easily able to spot and destroy US armored vehicles by mimicking the actions of dropping bombs from above or moving close enough to simulate a kamikaze strike, according to US officials and a participant who spoke with The Wall Street Journal.
it’s good that the war games happen. you learn a lot from losing.
it should be noted that the U.S. military loses effectively on purpose. ( I’m not saying they purposely lose, they just create situations where they basically have a very high probability of losing. ) for example the F-22 will open it’s bay doors so they are easier to spot on radar (and that’s just one example). That’s just a matter of public record. (and yes i know this battle was about tanks and drones)
But it’s always interesting to see the results of the war games.
you learn a lot from losing.
What do you really think the Hegseth military is going to learn from this?
It should be noted that the U.S. military loses effectively on purpose
Laughably disappointing. That was over 2 decades ago, huh?
No idea what The Hegseth military will learn
No idea what the military will learn.
And my guess is we will never know . Probably new techniques. That’s just a guess.
This reads like a high stakes LARP battle lmao. Down to one side getting creative with the rules and the other one crying to the DM for a nerf and a rematch
Like Trump demanding steam launch systems be retrofitted replacing the new electromagnetic stuff, because he is a toddler that understand nothing.
But assuming we survive Trump… maybe these lessons will make it under the next administration.
It’s been a long time since I read into M02 exercise but IIRC Van Riper only won by using “motorcycle messengers” that traveled at the speed of light. IIRC the game’s "DM"s basically ruled against him that their forces were not operating within realistic constraints which is why it was reset and restarted.
Van Riper only won by using “motorcycle messengers” that traveled at the speed of light
Van Riper used units designated as civilian material/personal to fill a gap in communications, in a war game that substituted certain functions of the combat as turn-based for expediency. They weren’t moving at the speed of light. They simply existed in the scenario, were used in a clever manner, and were able to function freely because the attacking US forces ignored them.
Van Riper used a few other tricks - toggling mobile radar stations so they won’t be easy to target by enemy artillery and using speedboats to harry American Navy - which the US leadership considered “cheating”.
But then… 24 years later… all of these tricks (and more) were used by the IRGC to devestating effect.
Americans learned absolutely nothing.
Is your generation incapable of developing a thought or imagining something?
You really can’t figure out how an institution as large and complex as the US military might have a way to learn things, even when shitheads are in charge?
Can’t imagine how it might be done? Can’t think through and solve that one? C’mon. I refuse to believe anyone is that dense.
I must have missed the part of their post where they mentioned their generation and the declaration they speak for all members of that generation.
You really can’t figure out how an institution as large and complex as the US military might have a way to learn things
It’s a matter of thinking of them. You’re got to actually employ them, too.
Is the US actually doing this? Or is institutional memory getting shredded by DOGE, et al?
it’s good that the war games happen.
No, it is not good that “war games” happens and that public money are spent do develop weapons to murder other people.
In a world where criminals like Putin, Netanjahu, Xi, Kim Jong Un and Trump hold power, it’s essential that the rest of us have weapons against them.
Arming these criminals even more is not a weapon against them. One weapon against them is to resist their bullshit and defund their armies.
If you live in the land of fantasy cupcakes, and unicorns, then yes, you get to simply go “we’ll just disarm them”.
Otherwise, no you pretty much have to keep your military trained and you have to keep learning how to do stuff. Life sucks but that’s the reality. Go back as far as you want. Go back hundreds of years ago go back thousands of years ago if you want to. It’s the same thing , if you do not protect your country with a military, shit gets really bad. And like it or not. This is the reality of the world.
There’s always an army in a country. If it’s not domestic it’s from the neighbour, but there is always some army around.
exactly
It sound like you are repeating some sloppy war propaganda, criminals like Putin, Netanjahu, Xi, Kim Jong Un and Trump are the ones in charge for the military! You are arguing to keep THEIR military trained to defend against THEM. Look at the reality of the world with your own eyes and think with your head
yeah i do. i look the world through the eyes of a realist and of one who studies history. you should try it.
also look at the number of upvotes and down votes you have. and those are from people in lemmy not in reddit. lemmy is left leaning and they are agreeing with me. think about that.
“lemmy is left leaning and they are agreeing with me. think about that.”
Think with your head. If you ask me there’s is nothing leftist about supporting the military, keep studying history
Y’know, if we (US) were smart and actually supported Ukraine with everything they need, you know they’d bend over backward to give us much of the tech they’ve developed.
Thanks, Trump. You’ve shit the bed on yet another thing here. But this is also Republicans in general. So fuck 'em all.
Not that I necessarily want the US to be ‘the world’s policeman’ any more, but y’know, we do pride ourselves on our military. Seems we’re behind the times now and if shit goes down… will we have an advantage as we have in the past? Maybe. Maybe not.
Ugh.
The one thing everyone feared about the US, it’s military, exposed as less mighty than expected.
Trump is Putin’s stooge.
No use in pretending otherwise.
US has probably already stolen the specs
The specs yes, but obviously not the skills. And that is the problem atm, The second best droneoperators are not of the western hemisphere…
Isn’t the whole point of these operations to teach those skills?
The article itself even says that the tank brigade eventually learned better ways to deal with the drones.
The US doesn’t have the the emphasis on drone operations like modern conflict. They still see them as ISR and not force projectors/fires. Hard to learn skills when you don’t have the type of device.
Yes the brigade learned to reduce drones impact. But they couldn’t stop them, respond to them, or use them against their enemies.
Its like fighting an enemy that only they have artillery, you just have to keep getting blown up.
Visual analogy:
Either way, at least the wargame shows the need for it, so hopefully the military will clamor enough for it to make it happen.
Oh yeah the US steals military specs it’s all fine.
When anyone else does it better get out the itty butty guns
The American way. Heh
Theres a reason the saying went “Truth, Justice, AND the American Way”.
Because #1 & #2 did not cover #3.
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Respawn attempts… Don’t learn anything from those.
That’s why russian tanks look like Mad Max props.
Teaches me for skipping the title and reading the body first, I missed that these were war games lol. For a second I thought ‘wait how have I missed everything that led up to this’
hah, gotta love that. Like scrolling reddit and you see something like “How can I kill my baby? I’ve tried starving, drowning…” and brain kinda half-reads and is like W T F - then you realize it’s like /r/TheSims or whatever. hehe
I’m kind of surprised no solid point defence platform has emerged from this heavy drone warefare.
Obviously its not as easy as just slapping a radar onto a turret 50 cal, but you’d think we’d at least have something for drones since they move way slower than air dropped bombs and tank munitions.
I’ve read about shotguns rigged to a makeshift CIWS solution having good results. It might just be the precursor to something proper.
To another reply in this thread: The problem with laser weapons is that they’re expensive and fragile. I’d be interested in tech breakthroughs on this front too…
I remember reading an article a while back about high powered lasers that could essentially take down drones via direct line of sight, but haven’t heard much more since then. I guess they’re difficult to target from the ground if they’re flying at very low altitude.
Unless its foggy or cloudy
gotta be honest, until the last word of the title i was kinda hopeful.
Is there any situation in which tanks win over drones?
Tanks have always been best in combined arms situations where they have close air support and infantry support.
Even regular infantry can be devastating to tanks in certain situations depending on the terrain and tactics used.
I think the future of unit warfare will likely be some hybrid model where the close air support role is offloaded to drones that advance and maneuver along with ground units. Maybe sufficiently advanced militaries will also incorporate drone tank-like ground vehicles and scout vehicles.
All the worlds big military players are watching what’s happening in Ukraine and taking notes.
I hadn’t read the article so apologies if I got it wrong, but are they saying the practice was just tanks vs just drones? Or did the tanks have air support?
All those things are things Ukraine has tried or is trying. Unmanner vehicles are mainly used for frontline logistics, but some with machine guns have held positions that infantry couldn’t. Drones appear to be useful in pretty much any situation, but infantry is still needed for taking/keeping control of terrain. Tanks are well suites for assaults, even with drones buzzing arround, but again with the support of infantry and all those other things you mentioned. It seems that war had changed quite a bit, but everything still revolves around infantry.
The drones are in a truck being delivered to the front. They would probably win there.
Really depends on the tanks and drones in question, the soldiers involved, the commanders running the operation, the actual objectives of the mission, yada yada.
Just straight off the bat, drones aren’t great at securing supply lines or moving large volumes of cargo long distances.
What’s the objective of the training? Just destroy each other or something else?
Ever since the air force took a technology-first approach, they’ve developed capabilities where they can put an explosive device with a few feet of where they want it to be from 40k feet up.
That drones could wipe out or disable tanks is not at all a surprise.
I really have no idea how more “bad people” aren’t just vaporized from orbit at this point.
The bad people own the drones.
But no worry! The Flock cameras will redefine a whole new class of bad people for the fascists to murder.
